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Hi all...I would like to share our Nationstar/Suntrust story with you. Feel free to comment, help, whatever....
We were approved for a HAMP modification back in February 2010. We made our 3 trial payments and jumped through all Suntrust's hoops. I kept up with them every week and no permanent docs came. 3 trial payments turned into 10 trial payements and fast forward to November when we received notice that our loan was being sold to Nationstar. Nationstar had no record of us being modified through Suntrust, and still doesn't. We had to start over, and in fact did just that 3 times between December17th and March. They showed us being 6 months behind and immediately filed for foreclosure. Every notice I would get, every letter they would tell me to IGNORE it. I'm glad that I didn't or we probably would be already kicked out of our house.
Last month after contacting everyone I could think of they finally "pushed" through a loan mod called "apollo". They sent us a piece of paper which what our payments would be for 3 months and that was it. We didn't have to sign anything, they didn't have to sign anything... there were no terms and conditions. We are not going to agree to this because of several reasons... the most important being that it would only lower our mortgage payment by $20 and add on over $11,000 to the back of the loan (we only owe around $81,000 left to begin with). secondly, I think it would be very stupid to make the payment, therefore accepting into this modification when I don't even know the terms or conditions or what I'm even agreeing too. Guess I have just lost all trust in these people after being dragged out for over 27 months! We were current when we entered into the HAMP trial period.. we weren't behind... we didn't start this mess.
Here's where it gets a little tricky. The foreclosure paperwork that they filed, none of it makes sense. The numbers don't match up within the documents, there are missing assignments... and the assignment to Nationstar is from MERS which isnt right, because Suntrust held the loan... and the assignment is signed by two of the most well known robo-signers, Bryan Bly, and notarized by Crystal Moore. I've started doing my homework and if what I've read is right.. this is fraud, right?? Outright fraud? I'm not even sure Nationstar can legally collect on this loan. Also, on a MERS print out that I have it lists our "servicer" as a non-MERS servicer and Nationstar as our "subservicer". Can anyone help me out with what that means?? Nationstar claims to be our servicer, so who's right?
Our foreclosure entered into lis pendens on 3-10-2011. We answered and our laywer has put in 2 requests for documents. We haven't heard a peep from their lawyers in over 2 months. Can anyone out there tell me if we have a chance in actually dismissing this case based on what we have. Nationstar is obviously stalling, and I wonder if it's because they don't have the documents needed to actually foreclose on us.
Any input is greatly appreciated!
Hello stopstalling. I'm so glad you registered here. I'm also sorry for the problems you're having with the bank.
It's a very good move to hire an attorney. I hope he/she is someone you trust to do a good job. As you know, it's mingboggling to go through this process on your own.
In my opinion, there's a pretty good chance you will be able to work something out to keep your home. We'll see what some of the other members here think.
Hello stopstalling. WELCOME! We're glad you are here.
Sorry you are going through the mod nightmare.
Liberty, a member here, has a lot of experience with Nationstar. He has probably heard of Apollo and can provide some good information.
I too have a problem with making payments without any agreement in writing. A letter from the bankster offering you terms with no other provisions is a scary thing.
Since you entered the HAMP trial period, I am wondering if SIGTARP or MHA compliance can help. The contact information for those two agencies are on the forum. If you cannot find them, let me know and I will post them.
You did the right thing by not ignoring notices sent to you. Too many people have trusted their banks and ignored notices, finding themselves in foreclosure and in non-judicial states, their first notice the home was sold is by the new owner knocking on the door to introduce himself as the new owner.
I have seen loans where the numbers do not match, missing assignments, messy.
I do not know when the Suntrust/Nationstar deal happened. When Suntrust acquired Nationstar, I am assuming Nationstar assumed all of Suntrusts assets/loans. No assignments or other paperwork would be required for the change, similar to the Countrywide/BOA transaction.
You have an assignment from MERS to Nationstar. What is the date of the assignment?
Bly and Moore are well known robo signers. Do you happen to have a list of all the documents that were recorded on your loan?
A subservicer can collect payments.
A master servicer can hire a subservicer to collect payments.
Nationstar could very well be stalling because they don't have the necessary paperwork.
Your lawyer should be able to tell you what can happen if you are able to prove the assignments, other paperwork is fraudulent.
If your lawyer sent discovery requests, hoping he sent request to produce documents, interrogatories, and my favorite: request for admissions, and the bank did not respond, he needs to file a motion to compel. Get the court to order the bank respond to those requests.
Other members will provide their opinion too. Sounds like you have been through a lot. I hope you have a resolution soon.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is not a legal opinion.
If you need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
Check out my book "Discover the Secrets Homeowners Used to Get Their Loans Modified."
Now available for Amazon for $2.99 for a limited time only.
Click here.
************************************************** *************************
Check out http://www.lorettco.com to get the best prices on designer clothing and more.
Great deals on everything golf at http://www.hillcountrygolfcourses.com
Do It Yourselfer? Tips and bargains on home improvement products at http://www.diygirlfriends.com
Thanks for responding, Debra and Lori ! Any input is appreciated.Originally Posted by Lori Kelly
Lori,
I have a big problem agreeing to anything that isn't in writing... especially since I've asked Nationstar to put it in writing and they either can't or will not do it. They say that they just can't put it in writing and that's the end of that. It blows my mind that a bank wouldn't want to put something in writing.. it just makes me think more and more that Nationstar is up to some dirty tricks. I have a feeling that they do this to more people than not. I am afraid if I pay the money during the "forebearance" period (that's what they told me Apollo was) that they would collect all the payments and foreclose anyways... it would be a much better idea to save the money and figure this thing out through the courts.
Nationstar said that we no longer qualify for the HAMP modification because Suntrust approved us so long ago (when my husband had his hours reduced, and then laid off). Our numbers have changed because obviously my husband has found work since we started this in March 2009. So I don't know if it would matter that I got to talk to someone that could help us with the HAMP mod. I just don't think it's fair because we complied with the trial period, and a permanent modification was never put into writing. Suntrust dropped the ball, but that's not our fault.
Did you say that Suntrust and Nationstar had a deal? Is there anything on the internet I can find to read about it?? I was under the assumption that Suntrust "sold" or transferred our loan to Nationstar. Suntrust is still in business, I don't think Nationstar bought them out. So shouldn't there be an assignment, like the one that MERS suppossably did to Nationstar?
Yes, I do have all of the documents that were recored on the loan. My husband closed with a small bank here in town and it looks like that small bank immediately sold it to MERS. There is an assignment from Heritage Bank to MERS. The only bank we have ever made payments to was Suntrust Mortgage. There is no assignment to Suntrust Mortgage..only an assignment from MERS to Nationstar. It is dated 12-6-2010. The letter that we got that said we were being transferred to Nationstar effective December 1, 2010. I don't know if a couple days matter, but it's not like the other foreclosures that the bank forecloses and then dates the assignment for after the fact. Besides those 2 assignments, a copy of the mortgage, that is the only paperwork that Nationstar filed with the foreclosure. My husband went down to the county recorders office and that is all they have too.
Our laywer seems to be doing the trick. He has sent discovery requests, 2nd request for discovery, interrogatories. He has also sent MERS some letters to see if Bryan Bly even has the authority to sign off as VP for MERS. He has asked them to sign affidavits to attest to some things. I don't know if he is waiting for the second request (30 days) to expire before he sends a motion to compel. Obviously they aren't in compliance and the judge should see that. Nationstar will not even answer my qualified written request. They actually told me that they don't have to answer that. ? Ridiculous.
Our laywer says while uncommon, if Nationstar is unable to provide the documents to legally foreclose on us we may end up with a somewhat "free" house. If the company can't collect on payments there is no mortgage.
Isn't it contract law that anything based is fraud becomes null and void?
Thank you again : )
Hello. Please remember that this is my opinion. It is just my opinion. I could be wrong and may very well be wrong. I am glad you have a lawyer. Hopefully you can get a list of questions together to ask him based on your own research.
Did you sign a HAMP trial agreement with Suntrust?
Do you have a record, maybe an online printout of how your trial payments were being applied?
Evergreenmom, another member here is going through a mod with Nationstar. I can't remember if she is going to receive a written agreement for her mod. Her story is on this forum under the Nationstar Homeowner Stories forum.
Forbearance can be considered a trial program, according to Fannie Mae guidelines.
You state that Nationstar said you do not qualify for HAMP. Why? Reapply. I would tell Nationstar you are going to make application for HAMP and want to know what documents they need to determine your eligibility and to send you the HAMP packet.
I would push this with MHA compliance. You completed the trial. Even if you are asked to submit updated documents, and you will be, you should still be considered as having completed the trial and if your updated documents prove you qualify, you should get the permanent mod.
I misspoke about Suntrust/Nationstar. For some reason I was thinking it was a buyout.
Your loan wasn't sold to MERS. MERs does not own loans.
When a loan is sold, that is when an assignment is done.
When your servicing (debt collector/bankster) changes, no assignment is necessary.
Servicers are debt collectors. Suntrust is a debt collector, so is Nationstar, Skank of America, Chase, etc.
However, a servicer/debt collector can both service your loan and own your loan.
Not sure why the lawyer would second a second request for discovery. When sending a second set, it usually means the first set was responded to and now your lawyer has more questions (sending second set of discovery).
I doubt MERS will respond to a letter. Ask your attorney if you can do a subpoena duces tecum to MERS, requesting that MERS provide the documents that authorize Bly to sign as VP for MERS. I doubt too MERS will sign any affidavit voluntarily. If MERS is served with a Subpoena Duces Tecum (subpoena for documents) and it fails to respond, then your lawyer can file a motion in court, to tell the court MERS failed to respond to a subpoena and to spank them.
Ask your lawyer if he served request for admissions. If this document is not answered, all questions are deemed admitted. If that is the case, your lawyer could then file a motion, asking the case be dismissed.
Failure to respond to a qualified written requests (QWR) is a $1,500 fine. I think it's $1,500. The penalties for not responding to a QWR are lame. That's why the banksters don't pay too much attention to them.
It's not a free house, you will still owe the principal amount of the loan. To someone.
If your lawyer can prove Nationstar does not have the documents to prove it has the right to foreclose, they can't foreclose.... yet. But they will come back after they get the documents together. And from what we have seen, they will get the documents together even if it means making them up and filing fraudulent documents.
If your loan is rescinded (you win a rescission lawsuit, and the contract is basically undone) it means that you don't get the house for free but rather, you are still responsible for the principal balance, but the bank will not be allowed to collect interest, fees, etc. and will not have the right to foreclose.
This gets complicated too. If the court decides that the Nationstar cannot foreclose because it doesn't have the proper documents, then who do you pay? Who owns your loan? Someone does. The banksters have created such a mess it is near impossible to find out the true owners of our loans.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is not a legal opinion.
If you need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
Check out my book "Discover the Secrets Homeowners Used to Get Their Loans Modified."
Now available for Amazon for $2.99 for a limited time only.
Click here.
************************************************** *************************
Check out http://www.lorettco.com to get the best prices on designer clothing and more.
Great deals on everything golf at http://www.hillcountrygolfcourses.com
Do It Yourselfer? Tips and bargains on home improvement products at http://www.diygirlfriends.com
Now I am even more confused that before. If that's possible.
I understand that whenver a loan is sold that's when an assignment gets done, but I have an "assignment of mortgage" from the original bank that my husband closed with to MERS. This is what it says:
"For valuable considerable, Heritage Bank, NA, a corporation under the laws of Iowa, Assignor (whether one or more), hereby sells, assigns and transfers to Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc. , Assignee (whether one or more), the Assignor's interest in the Mortgage dated May 24, 2007 executed by .... to Heritage Bank, NA, as Mortgagee, and filed for record on etc etc etc. "
Does that mean that the loan was sold, or just the "interest" in the loan?
Then the other one I have is:
"For good and valuable consideration, the sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, the undersigned, Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc (MERS) by these presents does convey, grant, sell, assign, transfer and set over the assigned mortgage together with the certain note(s) described therein together with all interest secured thereby, all liens, and any rights due or to become due thereon to Nationstar Mortgage, LLC"
Like I said, the only people we have ever paid was Suntrust Mortgage.
I'm going to write that other info down and call our lawyer on Monday. Thank you for that extra info. I've never heard of that before (duces tucum) I'm going to look that up.
I understand that it wouldnt' be a free house, but if Nationstar couldn't foreclose then at least we would have some dealing power with them, at least that's what I'm hoping for. I know the banks have made a big mess out of this, I've been doing a lot of research on line and it seems like it's happening all over the place.
Thanks again : )
That statement is such a load of crap I can't believe what I'm reading. MERs (mortgage electronic system). There are numerous cases out there that state MERs does not have standing, furthermore MERs cannot SELL something it does not have a lien right to LMAO.
BTW, we do have a MERs forum here, lots of good info.
http://beingmiddleclass.org/forumdis...-MERS-Research
Last edited by Fedup; 05-21-2011 at 11:43 PM.
Hi. Sorry I haven't responded earlier and my post was confusing.
Your loan was assigned from Heritage Bank to MERS. Interesting. The assignment you describe, the first one from Heritage to MERS states that Heritage sells, assigns, transfers to MERS it's interest in the Mortgage. I don't see any mention of the note. There have been lawsuits recently that say the note and the mortgage or deed cannot be separated.
Then MERS handed it over (assigned) to Nationstar. Nationstar owns your loan. Or I should say allegedly owns your loan because it is my opinion the assignment from Heritage to MERS should not be legal. But that's my opinion.
I'd like to read both the assignments you are talking about. Notice now the second assignment you mention, the one from MERS to Nationstar states "assigned mortgage TOGETHER WITH THE CERTAIN NOTE".
So, if the first assignment separated the note and the deed of trust or mortgage, then just how does MERS think it can give both the note and mortgage or deed to Nationstar? It is my opinion, they can't.
Suntrust is the servicer or debt collector.
Have you gone to the MERS website and typed in your information? If not, you should and let us know what it has on the website. https://www.mers-servicerid.org/sis/
You most definitely have some dealing power if you can prove there was a break in the chain of title on your loan. If you want to send me the assignments by email, you can black out your personal information, I can help you, give you my opinion.
The "free house" comes into play when a homeowner can prove that the note was separated from the deed of trust or mortgage.
Let's say I owe $200,000 to the bank for the house I bought.
I sign a promissory note promising to pay the bank back the $200,000.
Then I sign the Deed that says the bank gets the house if I don't pay.
Here's the problem: when those two documents are separated (note and deed), there is no doubt I owe the $200,000 according to the note. But the note is no longer secured by the house. So until someone can prove their interest in the house, I'm not paying on an unsecured note.
I hope this isn't confusing. It probably is. Maybe someone else can have a go an explaining this in more detail. It's getting to be that time of day where I'm reaching my 12 hours online. Brain not functioning properly.... : )
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is not a legal opinion.
If you need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
Check out my book "Discover the Secrets Homeowners Used to Get Their Loans Modified."
Now available for Amazon for $2.99 for a limited time only.
Click here.
************************************************** *************************
Check out http://www.lorettco.com to get the best prices on designer clothing and more.
Great deals on everything golf at http://www.hillcountrygolfcourses.com
Do It Yourselfer? Tips and bargains on home improvement products at http://www.diygirlfriends.com
Thank you so much for explaining further Lori. This really does help me quite a bit. I remember reading about how the note and the mortgage need to stay together, but I didn't know that if they were separated it could be an illegal sale. I want to get my ducks in order and have everything in front of me when I contact our lawyer again. He has been doing his job, I believe, but I want to do as much research as I can so I can be as informed as I can be.
I have been to the MERS website, and according to our MIN it states that Fannie Mae is the investor and that Nationstar is the servicer. The MIN status is "inactive" which I'm really not sure what that means, but I've read on line that it can mean a variety of things. The reason I am confused is that I got a print out from Nationstar when they looked up our MIN number. According to their printout it states:
Servicer: 9999999-Non-MERS Member
Investor: 1000130 Fannie Mae
Sub-servicer: 1003972 Nationstar Mortgage LLC
Originating Organization: N/A
So I ask again, who do you think the "servicer" is? Nationstar has stated that it is our servicer effective December 1, 2010.
I would love for you to look at the assignments but I have no way of scanning them onto the computer. I can type them word for word, would that be okay?
Thanks again for you help..
Welcome to the BMC Family SS - I have been out with the flu for a few days and have not been on the board to help or even to read what is going on. I helped Evergreen through her nightmare (which is not over by any means but well on its way to being a tamed lion) and would be more than willing to look at your docs to see what the issues are as I see them. I am really curious what the connection is between SunTrust and Nationstar is though, because it seems SunTrust sells off to Nationstar when they have huge issues in their chain of title - at least that seems to be my history when researching their docs.
Evergreen had a Fannie Loan with MERS involved as well so fear not - foreclosure can be overcome if you have all the cards and a bulldog attorney.
If you would like me to look at your docs, I can have you send me the info via email (if you have them scanned) or fax if not to see what we can come up with. A thorough title search is the starting point on everything and this board has some really smart and very helpful people who are typically able to help. We get bogged down with other things, like life, at times, but are usually available to point people in the right direction. You might be surprised what a new set of eyes can find.
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